World Beer Cup, Oregon Beer Awards, & Brown Ales w/The New School & Gigantic Brewing

Live from Vice Beer in Vancouver, WA, with your host, Michael Perozzo. In this inaugural episode of Overthinkr, we have Ezra Johnson-Greenough of The New School and Ben Love of Gigantic Brewing as our guests. We talk everything from pro-wrestling, World Beer Cup, Oregon Beer Awards, and what brown ale has to do with the Number Two Movement.

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Transcript

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On this inaugural episode of Overthinkr, we have Ezra Johnson-Greenough and Ben Love as our guests. We talk everything from Pro Wrestling, World Beer Cup, Oregon Beer Awards, and what brown ale has to do with the Number Two Movement. They found us, I don't know how, but they found us. This is Overthinkr. Welcome in. This is our inaugural first ever show. We're really excited about. It's been a lot of work leading up to this. Yeah, this is the speech. And it's a live podcast. We went into this wanting to do something a little different for the beer industry. But even beyond that, bringing together beer and other things, just like when you're sitting at the bar and you're talking about other things, you're not necessarily talking about beer the whole time that you're enjoying great beer. Talk about everything else. So we want to talk about a whole lot of things. Beer is going to be a big part of it, of course. We're in a brewery. We're drinking beer. But we're going to have a lot of cool fun guests and unique conversation around it. Without any further delay, I want to introduce our guests today. Our first guest tonight is the owner and editor of New School Beer, owner of Portland Farmhouse and Wild Ale Fest, founder of Portland Fruit Beer Fest, founder and owner of Portland Beer Week, writer, director, producer, graphic designer, brown ale enthusiast, social media marketing for Grand Fur, label artist, photographer, talent scout, bartender of Portland Beer's Monday Industry Nights, reporter, key grip, owner, operator of Peche Fest, co-founder of Portland Beer and Cheese Fest, co-founder and award ceremony director of the Oregon Beer Awards, US. Ambassador to Zimbabwe, the pride of Franklin High School, hot sauce maker, Bloody Mary mixologist, brewer, home brewer, social media influencer, bodybuilder, sandwich artist, and cat dad, Ezra Johnson-Greenough. And our other guest is Ben from Gigantic Brewing. How you doing, Ben? Great. Yeah, I was wondering why you were looking at your phone. I was like, I think we've met before. I just wanted to make sure I got it all. I just wanted to make sure that I covered everything. So thank you both for being our first ever guests on this show. This show is going to be broadcast out in a lot of different ways. You're going to be able to watch this on YouTube. So if you're listening right now, you can see us do this. If you check out our YouTube channel, you can find us on Instagram and X and Facebook. It's Overthinkr. Without the E at the end, there's no ER, just an R, Overthinkr. And we'll be on all the iPhone stuff and Spotify, all of that. So that's my plug. Thank you guys for being here. Brought you both in here today for a specific reason, that both of you are very involved with the Oregon Beer Awards. And it feels like we're in the thick of awards season with Oregon Beer Awards having just happened about three weeks ago. And then now just last night as of this recording and taping World Beer Cup was just announced. So I want to talk to you guys first of all about Oregon Beer Awards, how that even just came to be, how your involvement came to be, and talk about some of the highlights of what happened that night. And then kind of in a vacuum if we can, as the Oregon Beer Awards was last night, and talk about that first. Then we'll talk, we'll get into World Beer Cup and kind of how those things play off of each other and are related and whatnot, all that kind of stuff. So, Ben, you're the host, host with the most at Oregon Beer Awards. What was your favorite part of that night? Just this recent one, going back just a few weeks, what stood out as you as the most fun? Like most of my life, my favorite part of that night was to tell John Harris to f*** off. In what context did you tell this man, living legend, brewer of Full Sail and Deschutes, ecliptic John Harris? So, actually, this is a great opportunity to get on the record about this. Because it's actually something that's been going on between us for quite a long time now, and he's the one who started it, by the way. It was not me. But, like, so I have this event, Snack Down, which is a beer and wrestling and food-themed event. And John was part of the original crew. And so as part of that whole, like, you know, wrestler versus wrestler thing that we had going on, then he walked up to me and he was like, fuck you, Ben Love. And I was just like, yeah, he started it. And so then it's been this, like, continual tip for tat for years now, I think, for like five or six years. And my favorite moment of this was actually, I think it was last year, the Oregon Beer Awards, that basically I stopped, just like this year, I stopped partway through the awards. And I was like, I have something to say. And he's always like in the third or fourth row. And so I look right at him, you know, and I tell him that, you know. And last year, I think it was the first time I did the OBAs, then he was like, he was with his whole ecliptic crew. And I guess they all were like, what was that about? And John was, yeah, of course. He just called out their fearless leader. Yeah, it's somebody who like, we all look up to, you know, in Oregon beer that's been brewing beer and Northwest beer, that's been brewing beer for a long time and some amazing beers. And he just turned around and looked at him. He's like, I don't know, no idea. He totally threw me under the bus, which is exactly what John Harris will do to you too. Given the opportunity. That's fantastic. Ezra, what was your highlight of that evening in terms of the ceremony and everything? Besides the videos, we know the videos were great. I mean, despite my role as one of the founders and ceremony directors, I do not try to oversee or have any knowledge of what Ben or Natalie are gonna say. So I like to approach it as an audience member and see what kind of off-color jokes they're gonna make and how much booze or cheer as it gets. So I was enjoying the high-level, high-amount of booze this year. It doesn't matter for me. Actually, I just want a response. If there's nothing, then I'm like, oh, man. But if they're like, oh, everybody's upset, I'm like, yes. I mean that in the kind of sense. It's friendly, friendly booing. Yeah. Oh, of course. Yeah. I love the scene. Yeah, during's great. There's always some friendly, but sometimes pointed barbs thrown at some of the other breweries and references. There was one in particular reference that Ben made. That I enjoyed and I could kind of tell like most of the people did not get it, but then I heard a few people kind of like delayed, like knowing like, oh, like. A beer awards worth saving? Yes. That was, that was great. And that was a great, that was a great jab at yourselves, at your own awards and everything. Oh yeah, totally. That it was a beer awards worth saving when. I mean, there weren't a ton of, there weren't as many sponsors as last year. Yeah. So it might be a beer awards worth saving. I don't know. I hope not. Ezra, you can press on. Because literally, even last night, I was here at Vice Beer, this is where we record this live, and someone had just got off the plane from a Craft Brewers Conference and World Beer Cup, and they were from the Washington Brewers Guild, and they came here to watch the World Beer Cup Awards be announced. And our conversation was all around how Oregon has the best beer awards show. If you've never been, you should go. It's incredible. It really is, not to pump you guys up too much, but it really is the most fun that can be had in this industry. It's just really a well-put-together schedule. The awards are announced by different sponsors that also sometimes bring their own fun to it. And Ben and Natalie Rose Baldwin from Wayfinders, the other host of the show. And you guys kill it. It's fun. And of course, it also, it puts a lot of beer in the people who make beer. They are all there enjoying their craft, we'll say. And then they get to go on stage, and the gold medalist actually gets the microphone for 60 seconds to accept their award, which is unique. You know, all these other beer award things, it's like, come up here, get your medal, pose for a picture, get off the stage, let's go, you know. And it's just really neat that it takes the time to highlight these folks. And some gold comes out of those folks also just being on the microphone, accepting their award. Slightly inebriated. Oh, yeah. I was going to say on that particular subject, when we were originally conceiving of the Oregon Beer Awards, from the very beginning, I always wanted to have a real award show and have that kind of vibe to it. And there was a lot of skepticism that that would work or people would be into it. And the very first year, it wasn't really that. There was like a tiny award show at the Dugford Lounge, but there wasn't really like speeches. There wasn't, yeah, there wasn't much going on and it was kind of a shit show. But enough people turned up that the powers that be, being with Lam Week, were like, yeah, okay, let's step it up and do it at Rev Hall. So that happened in the second year. And then there was a lot of talk like, should we just get people on and off the stage and make it quick? And I'm like, well, then why are we even here? Like, let's make it fun. Who knows what people are going to say? And I'm like, exactly. That's it. That's the goal. I mean, the whole like, everybody having a good time, basically. I'll just say that. That I remember the first OVAs that I went to at Revolution Hall. And like, as that thing was kicking off and everybody was having a good time, and that's like a whole two-story hall. There's a whole balcony area. And to me, I was sitting in the upper area, and it reminded me of the scene from Tombstone where they're like in the theater, and they're doing like very nice, like Shakespeare, and you just have these drunken cowboys that are like shooting the ceiling and yelling at. I mean, that was essentially, yeah, that is the Oregon Beer Award experience. Yeah, totally. The Old West. The Drunken Old West. Yeah, yeah. No, I got to present an award, and I felt that like as I'm up there, I had what I was going to say and everything, and I even forgot one of the things I didn't deliver one of the things I was going to do, because there are just so many people yelling random things that caught my attention that I was just like, what? What was that? What's going on right now? But it was just an absolute blast. Yeah, lots of fun. Let's talk about the award winners. There were some. Sun River. Sun River. Won all the awards. Sun River won a lot of awards. So the awards are scored to come up with a large brewery of the year, a mid-sized brewery of the year, and a small brewery of the year, right? Is there another one? Is there a smaller category? Is it just those three? No, I mean, but there's like regional brewing awards and stuff. There's that as well, yeah. And the regional brewing awards are decided by a panel. The regional brewing are actually voted on by the industry. Yeah. Yeah, so it's different. So it's not based on the beers they actually enter to the competition. But the Oregon large brewery of the year, medium brewery of the year, and small brewery of the year, those are decided on by their medal count. By the medal count or just their overall point score and how far they get in the judging process, yeah. Oh, so they're even awarded points for beers that didn't medal that made it to a final table, so to speak. Yeah, and I'm not the math guy there, but there's even factors of how many beers did you enter is also a factor, you know, your percentage of success. Well, that's actually pretty cool to know that. I did not know that. Yeah, there's a lot of calculations that go into that. Because a brewery is able to enter, is it 10 beers per brewing location, like brewing operation they have, right? Yeah. So like a break side that brews. It used to be like unlimited for that. And then we had, it was, you know, some arguably warranted complaints that like, you know, some brewers could enter way more because of the amount of brewing locations. So now there's an overall cap on how many anyone can enter. But it's kind of, in my opinion, it's kind of a... It's important, but at the same time, it doesn't really factor in because no one enters that max anyway. Like, you know, for example, like... Really? No, I mean, maybe now that the max is lowered. But originally, like Michael was saying, it was 10 per location. So it means many breweries could enter 30, 40, like Mcminimums. I'm like, I don't know that anyone's entered more than like 10 beers or around that number ever, you know, so... Well, that's good to know. That keeps the playing field fair. So you mentioned Sun River. They were medium brewery of the year. No, large. They were large. Who was medium? Medium was Great Ocean. Great Ocean. And small? Small was Grand Fur. It was really cool because none of those breweries had won like small, medium or large brewery of the year before. Yeah, that's worth an applause for sure. Really cool. Yeah, Sun River is making some bangers that I wish made it up our way more often than they do. Great Ocean, of course, we have pretty good access to and great beer all around. Great Ocean surprised some folks in a category. You remember which category that was and what happened there? It's funny, I do remember them. I can't remember the category. I'm the one who announced... No, I didn't announce that category. You didn't. Now I remember. I was supposed to. I had a joke for it because I knew the... You read it that search. Yeah, I got all the awards the night before. But like, yeah, I'd read that and I was like, oh, I'm going to make a hat trick joke. But then Owen Lingley from Imperial East ended up presenting that award. And so then I suggested the joke to him. I was like, I think it's kind of funny. And then he went up there and he's like, so while I was backstage, Ben Love told me about this joke and we'll see if you guys think it's funny or not. That's not a very good Owen Lingley impersonation, but that's the way I hear him. Yeah, and then he tells the joke. And it did get a laugh, so that was good. Wait, tell the joke. What was the joke? It was a joke, but not a joke. Basically to go up and be like, look down and look up and be like, you guys are all ready for a hat trick. And then basically it's like, yeah, they won all three awards, which really happens. I believe it was Hazier Juicy IPA, wasn't it? Yes, so they swept, yeah. They swept the entire category. Yeah, it's appropriate, I think. It checks out. It's on brand, for sure. Grand Fur, obviously, yeah, did very well. Great beers. So ZZeppelin, we got to go out and do some filming with Grand Fur and re-familiarize myself with her beers. That's Whitney Burnside, who I originally met when she was with Pelican. She was with Elysian before that, and then Pelican, and then Ten Barrel, and then now her and her husband Doug have Grand Fur. You need to go there. You need to drink that beer. It is really, really good beer. I know you have a little bit of bias there. One of the things, I don't know if you heard it on the list of all the stuff that you do, Ezra, but Ezra does some marketing things with Grand Fur, and that's got to be an easy gig. It's nice because I've known Whitney for a very long time. I first met her when she basically got an internship brewing at Upright Brewing, back when I worked at Upright Brewing in the early days, and before that she had... That wasn't on my list. I had to go back for that. So that must have been more than 14, 15 years ago. You made some amazing labels for them. Yes. Just looking at Ben's eyes, I feel like you're referring to one label in particular that was an amazing label. You know what label he might be alluding to, Ezra? Is there a label? No. I think it was Fatali 4. Yeah, Fatali 4. It's amazing. Fatali 4. Google it. Maybe without your children around. You know what I just realized? I think that Michael and I thought you were talking about a more risque label, but you were talking about the other label. Actually, when he said that, when he's like, you might be thinking about a label, it popped in my head, but I can't remember the name of the beer. Yeah. That's what I thought you might have heard. Now I know obviously what you're talking about. Yeah. So yeah, there was a series called Foreplay that had some risky labels. There it is. But the funny thing is, lesser known to some of us but not to Ben, there was a beer called Blend Love that featured his visage on it that I illustrated. Yeah. It was during the whole, I don't even know, Alex did a series of beers named after people. Inspired by brewers. Inspired by brewers. I know he did one for Corey Blodgett. Corey, there was even, I think it ended up being a Blend Edmonds from Ben as well. Yeah. A few other ones. I think it was a Vistilli beer. It was a Smart Beer. So the reason we were at Grand Fur to interview and film with Whitney Burnside was because of her history with Pelican Brewing Company, which is why we also met and filmed with Ben Love to talk about Pelican Brewing Company, because the new inductee to the Oregon Beer Hall of Fame was Darren Welsh from Pelican. What years were you at Pelican? I was there from 2004 to 2007, and it was the first brewing job that I had there, or that I had, sorry. It was my first brewing job, and he taught me, he really did, he taught me everything about brewing. And at that time, when I first started, it was just the two of us. We made like, I don't even know, I looked it up, but it was like 1200 barrels of beer or something, you know, like it was just a little brewery. I mean, we're brewing beer for the tap room. It was just that, on Pacific City, that little system right there was all they had at that time. Yeah. So you went from there to give us your timeline. Right. Yeah, I went from there to Hop Works. And so, yeah, I was... And that must have been really early days for them. I was the first employee. So I actually helped do construction in the brewery. It was funny. That all came together because Christian and I had talked. I'm from the Portland area originally, so I was looking to move back to the city. And so Christian, he was basically like, when I start this thing, you're going to be the brewer. And then he went with a ride on a bike ride with Darren. And while they were riding, he was like, he wanted things to be cool because the industry was so small at that time. And so he's like, hey, just so you know, I'm hiring Ben Love from you. And Christian's like, oh, that's great. This is a great opportunity. When is he leaving? And so then it like put a firm date on Christian on like when I had to be hired. And what ended up happening is I ended up doing construction for six months and helping build the place out, which was amazing. It was a great experience because I obviously like never done anything like that before. And I mean, but it was great when I started my own brewery having, I don't know, like laid, you know, like that. Right. So what year then was was that that you started building out your own brewery? That was 2000, end of 2011, and we opened in 2012. Awesome. And how did you have a partner in that in that brewery, Van Havik? Van Havik, yeah. How did he come to be? How did that meeting? Yeah. So so Van and I knew each other through the Oregon Brewers Guild. We were both on the board of directors, and so, you know, we got to know each other better there. Like I said, like the industry was quite a bit smaller than it is now. And while we had a lot more events that we were doing still at that time, I mean, that that went up right till 2020. But like, yeah, when we were hanging out, I'd always seek him out. We'd hang out. And he he was working at Rock Bottom at the time, and him and I were chatting. And basically, Rock Bottom sold to this large company. And they're like, nothing's going to change. And then a few months later, they're like, all right, all you guys are going to make the same four beers, and then you can do whatever you want with the other ones. But across the nation, Rock Bottom is going to have the same four beers. And he was like, this is bullshit. You guys said you weren't going to change anything. One of the things that makes Rock Bottom great is that each location, because it's all around the country, like brews beers for the local market. And he actually gave an interview to... I want to say the name if you don't want me to. To Brew Public. I remember that reading. I think it had to be Angela. Yeah, that was Angela at the time. I'm actually not sure that New School existed at the time, but I remember reading that. So he gave an interview to Brew Public, which at the time was like, I don't know, this was like 2012 or something. How many people were really reading blogs at all? Anyways, the CEO of the company, of the whole holding company, found out about the interview and told the brewery manager that they had to fire a van. Wow, which was great. Never heard this story. It was great because it worked out because we started Gigantic, but also what was great about it is that the guy who fired him, his brewery manager, also invested in our brewery. Basically, he was just like, I got to do this. It's in its board nation. That's pretty cool. Basically, at a van's going away last day party at Belmont Station, him and I had talked about, he had possibly had something going on with somebody else that fell through, and so at that event, I was like, hey, you and I should just get together and start our own thing. I think it was basically a year from then when we started Gigantic, like when we opened the doors. That's amazing. Yeah. And so now Gigantic is 12 years old. Yeah, 12 years old. That feels weird for me to even say. It still feels newer than that, and that's awesome. And you guys won awards at Oregon Beer Awards as well. In previous years, yeah. In previous years. Yeah, totally. I thought for sure I saw you this year. No, not this year. No. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah, we won a handful of awards for beers, a marketing award. Awesome. Yeah. Most likely to succeed. Ezra, what did you think about how the brown ale category turned out at Oregon Beer Awards? Well, it turned out pretty well, because I'll tell you this. I was privy to the winners a couple weeks ahead of the ceremony, and I immediately went to the brown ale section, and I saw that Falling Sky Brewing in Eugene had a brown ale that won the gold medal. And later that day, I was at Belmont Station, and I'm just looking, browsing, and I see that exact beer staring me in the face on the shelf. So I was like, this is kismet, you know. We got married later that evening. Amazing how many other brown ales they have on the shelf. I set something aside for you. I saved it. I saved the last can that we have of Better Than Ezra that you could have tonight. If I drink this, is it no longer anything better than me? I think so. I think that is the last liquid that is better than you. Yeah, thank you. Well, I know I've made it when last night the beer mongers made a post from the World Beer Cup of the Brown Elle winners taking me, saying I need to, I have work to do. So, I'm moving to the Midwest, just to let you know right now. Yeah, the beer mongers tagged Ezra during the viewing of the World Beer Cup as the Brown Elle category was announced and said, you've got work to do in Ottawa and Wichita, Kansas. There was one other city that I don't remember. I feel like it was Oklahoma or something like that. It was out there somewhere. Atlanta, someone said Atlanta? Atlanta. South Carolina. Okay, South Carolina is where you got to go. You got your work cut out for you to catch up with the world's best brown eels. Well, I mean, I'm excited to announce the National Brown Eel Association is sponsoring me to go on a trip. There's your own organization. We need to back this up for the listening and viewing audience. Somewhere around a year ago, Ezra started off on a mission of Vendetta, a crusade for the Holy War. A holy war for the resurgence of brown ale. Tell us why this is happening. I mean, I don't know why everyone's laughing. It's not funny. My wife loves brown ales, actually. She's one of your biggest supporters, actually. I don't think you knew that. No, I did not know that, but this all makes sense now. This makes sense why I get along so well with Andrea. I mean, what needs to be said? Brown ale is delicious. Everyone loves brown ale that has good taste in beer. Yet, I don't know, these kids today want milkshakes. Well, what can I tell you? Brown ale is beautiful. Brown ale is beautiful, okay. I mean, you're not wrong that they are delicious. Why do you think they, you know, just among the sales data, not that I'm a research analyst. You know, I talked with the brewer from Lowercase Brewing a year or so ago, and it was somehow brown ale came up. I think it's that they make a brown ale. Lowercase, they're in Seattle. Yeah. And I was like, how much brown ale do you guys sell? Because Andrew has always talked to me about you guys should make brown ale. She loves brown ales. And I think he said they brewed like a 10-barrel batch in the last pretty much the whole year. So there's people that drink it. I do, seriously, I do find its popularity might not be that great here in like Oregon and California, but like even when I was just in like Seattle a month ago, just randomly I ran into like three different brown ales on tap. If you look in the Midwest, there's like brown ales everywhere. I mean, it's... Don't say that. The West Coast is very obsessed with chasing, following the latest flavors, and that's great. I mean, it's one of the best things about this region. But some things can be lost in the shuffle, and I do think they eventually make their way back. And I don't know about you, but it's hard for you to dispute that brown ales are coming back when you made one. We did. As a joke. Well, it wasn't like a single can, Ben. This is a good question. How well did it sell compared to your other beers? It sold really quickly. What did it? But there's a little method to the madness behind that. I mean, we knew once Ezra started trolling with his comments in the Facebook group Beer Nerds, he was pretty regularly trolling about brown ale and particularly poking at me on a number of occasions about brown ale. And I made a decision months and months ago. I was like, I'm going to make a brown ale and name it after this turd. And so then I kind of started doubling down on my hatred for brown ales. So anybody who posted a brown ale in the group, I would go call it names and call it an obsolete style and compare it to vomit and other things and just kind of played that up until it really hit its crescendo that we released Better Than Ezra on Ezra's birthday at Belmont Station. Sorry, not Belmont Station. It was at Beer Mongers. I get my B taprooms intertwined sometimes. It was at Beer Mongers. And somehow, it snuck it by them the whole time. Because actually, the cans had... There had been social media posts about it and everything already. To get the cans to Beer Mongers, we had to give it to our distributor. They're not going to be like, oh, okay, because it's Ezra's birthday, we're going to just hold on to this pallet of cans. That's exactly what happened. Yeah, they should have. Yeah, they didn't. They had the cans out everywhere. They clearly blocked me from seeing anything about it. I don't know how you didn't pick up on it, but it was pretty great. It's because I unfollowed Vice on all accounts because you weren't making brown ale. Yeah, that's it. That's probably why. But no, it was fun because we walked into Beer Mongers, and Ali from Swift Cider was there and was like, Ezra, it's your birthday. Look, they have your beer on. And Ezra was just like, what? The video is in Beer Nerds. You can search Ezra's name, and it's probably in that Facebook group. It's probably the first thing that will pop up. So it was pretty funny. It was a good time. I knew there was something going on, though, when you, anytime you see Michael holding his phone, like lower on his body than anyone would look at it. Like my first thought is he's like shooting like some inappropriate photos. It's usually inappropriate video. Just be aware that something's going to happen. Before we move into talking about World Beer Cup, I have one more question about the OBAs. How instrumental and impactful was the influence and involvement of Martin Sismar in the creation of Oregon Beer Awards and its legacy today? I think that's the whole reason Ben Love's involved. He was inspired by his legacy. My legacy of hatred for Martin Sismar to try to make it better since he's left. It all goes back to Sismar's review on the abominable ale from Pop Works. Yeah, I have to give some context for that. One of the first things Martin Sismar wrote for Land Week was a review of Hop Works' abominable ale, which basically amounted to, this is not a winter beer. It's not spiced. Where's darkness? Where's the clove? Yeah, and I was like, you're so right. I have never heard of another winter beer called Sierra Nevada Celebration. Yeah. Right, which is also not spiced at all. A very bright hoppy ale. Martin, yeah. You're so, yeah. So that, again, just to loop everybody in on the conversation, Martin Sismar was probably Portland's greatest clickbait artist. He knew how to get people to read articles by having very polarizing opinions and hot takes. Yeah, so many of his things read that way. That's exactly what he was looking for. Just to walk into a town where everybody loves themselves, and especially an industry like ours where everybody's so friendly, and be like, I'm going to be the guy. And just rip somebody. Totally, exactly. The first time I ever talked to Martin Sismar was, yeah, a few of his early reviews had came out, and I criticized them online. And I'll never forget this one day, I was at the gym and my phone was ringing, and it was like a 503 number, so I was like, I'll check it. And I was like, hello? And it was like, is this, the voice is like, is this Samurai Artist? That's my old email handle. And I'm like, is this a joke? Like, who's calling? And he's like, it's Martin Sismar from Willam Week. I know who you are. And I'm like, oh, what's up, man? And he's like, I found out your real name and I got your number, I'm going to unveil you to the public. And I was like, oh, good, yeah, it's going to be real shocking to everyone. No one knows who I am. Yes, I'm anonymous. I mean, just tell you how little he knows about the industry. He's just like, I'm going to unmask you. And I'm like, okay, good luck with that, Martin. But later, and everything that one's saying is true, I did become a little bit more friendly with him once I was just kind of like, I'm not putting up with your bullshit. And the true story of part of how the Oregon Beer Awards came about was one day, I think it was at a media preview we were both at, he started telling me about some kind of idea he had to do some kind of beer awards because he had got William Week to do like Sismar's top 10 beers of the year and have a little event around it. And he wanted to expand it. And he started kind of telling me his dumb ideas about how to do that. And I've been thinking about doing a real like awards for many, many years. Like I've been thinking about it all the time. And I was like, so I just kind of like laid out my idea. And he was like, I guess that's a better idea. And he took it to William Week and they said yes on a very small scale. Wait a second, wait a second, wait a second. So you're telling me that my joke question about how influential and instrumental Martin Sismar was in the creation of the Oregon Beer Awards, the answer is that he actually was instrumental. He was totally instrumental in making it a reality. He never had a hand in producing it or running it or any of the creative of it, but he was truly instrumental in being like, hey, this is a good idea and pitching it up, which made it happen. Yeah. I'm learning things all the time already. Yeah, I don't remember that either. I just remember the first year I went, I didn't know who he was. He got introduced on stage to say something, and the vitriol, it wasn't jeering. It was like anger. And I was like, oh, who is this guy? And who? Yeah, and of course, he had some hot takes that got booed and whatnot as well. He's no longer in the area. I don't know. I forget where he is now, but he's moved on to other things. He's got like a high-end job in the middle. I think he works for Gandhi Nass now. Oh, is that where he's at? Because I thought he went to a clickbait site for a while. Actually, he managed a clickbait site. He showed his chops. Yeah, he worked on his chops in Oregon. And now he's like, yeah. What's funny is I ended up hosting the awards because, in a roundabout way, because of Martin Sismar, because the previous host, who I thought was amazing and made me laugh, I think he's way funnier than we are, Herb Apon, did this amazing monologue, like mid-show, that basically tore apart Martin Sismar. And there was other things in it too, but it was hilarious. And the industry a bit as well. It was really funny. And that was his last year. And that was, that's how I got the call. That was also the last time Martin ever showed up at Oregon Beer Awards. He was like a special guest that year, right? He wasn't with Well I'm a Week anymore. Was he? I think, I thought he was. I felt like he had left at some point and then came, you know, like he wasn't around. Yeah, you might be right. I remember that being like Herb had actually suggested, he wanted to do like this roast event where we do a roast of different people, and he wanted to do a roast of Sismar at Loyal Legion, and it never quite came about, so I think he was, I hope I'm telling the story right, this is the way I remember it, was that he was like, I'm just going to do a mini surprise roast of Martin Sismar at the... And everybody ate it up. Because everybody, all the brewers, the whole audience there didn't like him, so they thought it was hilarious. Yes. And yeah. Fantastic. We blew past my intended segue for World Beer Cup, but let's talk about World Beer Cup anyway. I had no idea that would elicit such a conversation, but I'm happy for it. I'm glad it happened. World Beer Cup. That happened last night. They got sashes this year. They did. They changed the way the awards look. So even the awards, World Beer Cup awards were kind of weird looking for a while. They were like embossed, glossy images of a trophy on a piece of paper that was framed, and you hung that on the wall, and now it's actually, you got a sash, which was cool. I saw the sashes that they were putting on them on stage. I don't know if cool is the right word. They were definitely like, they were fun. I think cool in terms of like, I think it's a good idea. Yeah, because it's in Vegas. Yes, exactly. It was in Vegas. You have, you know, the bachelorette parties and things going around Vegas and all of that. I just imagine last night in Vegas had to be an absolute hoot with all these people wearing these sashes for the awards that they won. I thought it was pretty cool. And then the other little thing they gave them was kind of, it looked like a wall piece kind of a thing that was... Slash like bubble, like voice bubble. You could write something in it. It kind of looked like a voice bubble in a way, yeah. But yeah, it was an interesting looking award. I thought it was pretty neat. But we were talking about it on the way over here, actually, and we were wondering, debating about whether or not you still get the plaque as well. And now we're wondering, actually, do you also get the plaque there? Because they would always... Did they give you something? Yeah, no, they would give you the award there, yeah, totally. But they gave you something. Yeah, oh, Sean's saying there is a plaque too. Ah, okay, cool. There is a plaque. So you have three things now. Our producer Sean says they are mailing it to you. I'm just hoping when I go to Breakside, Milwaukee, and I see that wall of medals, I see a sashay hanging. A sash up there as well, yeah. You don't think they'll just wear it around? It'll be like the brewer of the day gets to wear. So Breakside won on the world stage. Last year, they did 22 medals last year. This year, 29 medals just for the state of Oregon. Yeah, and there was a clean suite in one of the categories too. That's the big one. Ten Barrel for German Sour, so your Berliner Weiss kind of style beers swept the entire category. Yeah, between there, how many breweries does Ten Barrel have now? There's Eastside and Westside in Bend. There's two there. They're down a lot across the country because they've closed a lot, but yeah, I think there's three in Oregon. Okay, there's one in Boise. One in Boise, but I think they closed San Diego, Denver, and yeah, it might be it now. Okay, okay. So let's talk about Ten Barrel for a second. Ten Barrel, famously, was it 2015 that they were, 2015, 2016, they were sold to or bought by Anheuser-Busch, ABNBEV, and a lot of beer folks, a beer community had mixed feelings about that. Not so mixed. Not so mixed, I guess. A lot of people really didn't like that, despite the fact that they continued to win great awards, and the beer continued to be brewed by phenomenal brewers. I think all of us here would agree, like Whitney Burnside is incredible. We talked about her Grand Fur Brewing earlier. We'll talk about that some more. She won three awards last night at World Beer Cup as well. And Tonya Cornett, previously with Bend Brewing Company, and then Ten Barrel. Amazing brewers. It was difficult. I'll call myself out on being one of the ones that was like, no, I don't like this Anheuser-Busch involvement. I don't like the games Anheuser-Busch plays when it comes to distribution. That's really where my beef is. You know, I can't complain that Anheuser-Busch, you know, bought them all the greatest ingredients and things like that. I can't complain that they, from what I've heard, take care of their employees pretty well. That's a good thing. But it was the, you know, they even, I believe it was at Boise State University that a lot of fines were levied against the distributor there for all just invading the campus and giving away swag and giving, you know, just like all of these tactics that craft brewers couldn't play that game. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. At the end of the day, it's like, it's one of those, yeah, when everybody went over there, I felt like I always told them, told Whitney and, you know, and everybody over there that like we were always supporting them. You know, that we support them as brewers, they're obviously part of our community. Right. You know, it's just like, yeah, while they're at 10 Barrel, then, you know, or, yeah, I guess, it's part of AB, it's part of a larger corporation. Like those guys, they're, the only way they look at the world is domination. You know, they aren't a community organization. You know, they don't play well with everybody else. And so, like, yeah. The only 10 Barrel beers I had during that time, I would do the research and be like, well, is this one of the one-off kind of beers that Whitney did at the Pearl? I'll drink that. You know, is this something from Tanya that is one-off kind of a thing? Like, okay. But, you know, if it was at the grocery store or at the local Applebee's, no. You know, that was kind of my... That was my approach. And don't touch pub beer. Don't touch pub beer. It's really bad. What about Pub Ice, though? Do they really make Pub Ice? Yeah. I've never had it. Is it good? I mean, I was hoping you'd tell me. So, one of the jokes that we had at the OVAs was about how bad pub beer was. And I challenged anybody, you know, the Works for Ten Barrel or anybody else to come tell me that it was a well-made good beer, you know? I was like, I'm not talking about your other beers. We all know you win awards, you know? Like, you guys make fantastic beer, just that one beer. And it was because of a bad, yeah, I had it and it was really bad. It was like as simple as that. Trying to be nice here. But like... When they came up, then I was talking to... God, man, I'm Jimmy, right? Jimmy's Seafood? Yeah, I was talking to Jimmy and he's like, no, no, it's okay. He's like, yeah, it's not very good, but we're gonna start brewing at Woodmer. It's gonna be really good then. He's like, just wait. So I actually, honestly, like when I had it, it was the Timbers game. I was like, oh, they're out of, you know, Freem Pilsner. Grab a pub beer, no big deal. It's gonna be good. It's made by Ten Barrel. Yeah, it's their cheap beer, but it should taste, you know, fine. It should taste great. It should be clean and crisp. It was not. It was not at all. Speaking of Freem beer, Freem beer won gold last night for German Pils. It really is a go-to Pils. It really is. It's very much a go-to. Right behind them, the silver in that category, was also a Northwest Brewery. Do you guys remember who that was? I don't. It was C-Pine. I would be guessing. Washington. Three medals were won by a new brewery that... It's not even a new brewery. They've actually been around five years, and their name escapes me. Oh, I thought this was... Formula Brewing. Formula Brewing. Formula Brewing out of Issaquah. Yeah, I did notice that. I didn't notice how many they won, but I did hear that, and I was like, well, weird. I've never heard of them. Yeah, they... I hadn't heard of them either. And that's... For as much as you and I both and the three of us all keep our finger on the pulse of this industry and what's going on in the Pacific Northwest, the fact that there was a Washington brewer that not only won, but won three times was like, where's this coming from? I looked into it a little bit. I found out that just about a year ago, they hired a new brewer there named Jesse Brown. And he comes from Machine House, is where he was at last. And before that, he was at Chainline. So I did some cyber-stalking to figure out what's going on here. Which categories did they win in? I wish I could remember them all. One of them was a stout. And I don't actually recall the other two. Was there an ESB one in there? I feel like, yeah. Maybe. I feel like I saw them. Maybe. Yeah, probably more English-focused. Are you hoping they make brown ale? I mean, they better if they want to stay relevant and capitalize on those awards, you know. Got to make brown ale to stay relevant. Ben, I'm out of beer. I see you have beer over there. Oh, yes. Yeah, shameless plug. You did mention earlier that it's our 12th anniversary coming up here. Yeah. And I actually, thank you. And I brought some of, we re-brewed our 12th Beer High Fidelity IPA, which is actually one of our favorite beers we ever made. And so I brought some of that. Wow, this is like the debut. I'll bring it on. Bring it on. Digging in the cooler, and here we go. High Fidelity. I like it. I like it. I like the art. It's a cool can. I will hold it up in a second. Hey, you didn't ask me to hold it up. The producers are like, Browning it. Shake it. Don't overshadow Ezra's brown ale. Yeah, this is High Fidelity right here. Beautiful can. And canning is not something Gigantic has done previously to like two months ago. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah, literally. I don't know if you heard, but cans, we were in bottles for a long time, and cans, it's what everybody wants to buy their beer in now. I don't know if you do that. I did, actually. I was up on cans and brown ales. We're in deep Southeast Portland, and the word finally got down to us down there. But everybody's drinking beer in cans. Exactly, exactly. You guys are giving me shit about brown ales. You just figured out cans. So tell me a little more about this beer. I'm reading about it contains high fidelity hops. That's pretty much all you need to know. That's all you need to know. We actually do talk more about the hops that we put in beer. We'll call them out or whatever, I feel like, like in our descriptions now, but for the first, I don't know how many years of the brewery, we were just like, yeah, the description was meant for us to have fun and to not really, to talk about the beer while not talking about the beer the whole time. You know, we're basically like, hey, listen, like Dan's been brewing for, I don't know, a long time at that point. I've been brewing for quite a while at that point, and we're like, we make pretty good beer, so you guys should just buy it and drink it and like it. Yeah, exactly, yeah, totally. We don't need to tell you what's inside the can. Actually, a lot of breweries don't even have any kind of description. That kind of blows my mind, is that you're looking at a can. Yeah, there really are two schools of thought on that, and I think part of it goes towards what your approach is, who you're trying to market it to. Beer can be a commodity. It can be something that you just pick up. You know, yeah, it does. It says it was brewed the day hell froze over. It says on the side there, it has a fermentation... It says, government warning, according to the surgeon there. We have a description on there. It says... Brown Ale, brewed the day hell froze over. It says that it was brewed in tank number two, which is the only fermentation vessel you should make a brown ale in, is number two. It's right there. Was that brewed at the silo overturned in the street there? No. Yeah, not all of our labels at Vice have... We don't have big descriptions about what flavors you should get and things like that. My approach is more for... I think we're trying to make beer for more of the beer nerd that is interested in the hops and things. They want to see what hops are in it and stuff like that. I don't want to necessarily tell them what flavors they should get out of those hops. I think particularly the IPA enthusiast has kind of already narrowed down what hops they're looking for. And I think that's part of how they buy. I think right now New Zealand hops are pretty hot. So they see the Ruaka, Motueka, Nelson. That's what they're going for. But I think there's total value in the other approach, too. Like, hey, here's what this might taste like, or here's just the story behind the beer. We're celebrating an anniversary. You could have a description that just talks about that. And as an anniversary beer, you probably don't need to get too into the weeds. You can have fun with it because beer is fun, too. So there's just these different avenues and ways to approach it that the beer industry is not as, I don't know the term for it, maybe homogenized as, say, wine. Wine's got to be really like, what region was this made in, what grapes are involved, and what year did it go to barrels? It's so like, beer's kind of all over the place. We all take our different approach to it and go... Yeah, you don't talk about the salts that you use. You don't talk about... It's all just hops, malt, yeast, maybe. But you don't talk about those other things that go into a beer that... There's a lot of other things, it turns out. One of the things in that realm that I enjoy about beer right now is that people care a little bit less about how high IBUs and alcohol things are in general. IBUs are dead. Yeah, which I think is a great thing, because there's always a misleading number. Talk to me about that. I have my thoughts on it. So why is IBU a misleading figure? Well, for one thing, most IBU counts on beers were not actually scientifically counted. McKellar made a 1,000 IBU beer. If you've home-brewed a beer before, too, you know you can look at what the projected alpha acids are on a 2-ounce bag of pelletized hops and do some very basic mathematical calculation that says your beer is 60 IBUs. If you actually sent that to a lab and it tested, it's highly inaccurate. But also, the amount of IBUs in a beer does not translate to the perception that you get from drinking a beer, you know? And a lot of that perception is because of residual sugars and things in the beer. I've found you can basically have a 60 IBU 5% pale ale, and the perceived bitterness is higher in that because there's less sweetness behind it than an 8.5% double IPA that everybody is like, oh, this is 90 IBUs, and they're like, oh man, this is so bitter. And it's like, no, that's a lot of, it's very sweet. There's a lot of sugar was involved to reach that alcohol by volume. That's why I just kind of go, we get the question here at Vice Beer every day, where's your IBUs? And I have to kind of explain to people, like, you know what? How about we give you a splash of it and you taste it? You tell us if it's bitter. Yeah, I mean, when we started Gigantic, then we really resisted putting IBUs on like anything that we did just because of the fact that, you know, yeah, it has nothing to do with the intensity of the hopperome or flavor, which is, yeah, I actually thought it should come up, we should have like a single tester, and they decide how many international flavoring units there are of hops. And so like it would go to that one person, and then they would decide where, because you could only have one person, or you'd have to have people that were trained, so that they're all on the same palate. How many IPAs a day can they drink before they can't taste anymore? That would be the right way to determine, you know, the way that we make IPAs now, because that's the whole thing, is that like the whole IBU, knowing the IBUs is for Budweiser. You know, it's like, how many IBUs are in Miller Lite? Probably like nine, you know? How many IBUs are, no, no. I thought Sean was saying, no, what am I like, you know, nine IBUs in Miller Lite? He's like, three. There's one IBU. Twenty-one. But like, you know, Budweiser, I don't know, like 18 or whatever, you know? But it's all, that's what IBUs are for, you know? And maybe the way we made IPAs way back when, when it was like all kettle hop. And so you really were going for that bitterness. And you, you know, dry hop maybe didn't even exist. You know, all the hops went in the kettle. And like if you were like whirlpooling with hops late, that was just blowing minds, you know? And then we started, yeah. Anyways, it got more and more in the fermenter largely, dry hop. And then like, and just late editions. And so you're getting this really intense flavor and aroma. But yeah, IBUs bitterness has nothing to do with it. And so, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you could have a Pilsner right now that has 25 IBUs and it will taste more bitter than an IPA, depending on the certain IPA that's 60 IBUs, you know. But going back to when I used to do a lot more pouring beer and was more active in that hospitality side, it was just a constant question of like, how many IBUs, how much alcohol, only things that are higher, big number better, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm glad that we've gotten away from that. Although, I mean, still here in some form coming back with the stove pipe, 19.2 ounce cans, you know. Craft malt liquor. Yeah. That's what it is. Right. It's not just like a sign of quality, you know, that you have that now, which is nice. Yeah. Yeah, and I think hazy IPAs kind of came in there, you know, 2020, 2017. Yeah, and everything became late edition. Yeah, so much hop and no IBU. Yeah, yeah. But people still wanted to know, because everybody always just assumed that IBU was... That's the thing, everybody, you know, incorrectly assumed that IBU was an example. You would know how much... Hoppiness. The density of hoppiness there would be, yeah, totally. And so then it became one of those, like, I had that problem, I'd be like, I don't know what to put on this thing. Yeah, this Hazy IPA is like 45 IBUs, but if I put that, nobody's gonna want to drink it. I gotta say that it's like 68, you know? And even though it was just... We've been making up IBU numbers forever. Right? It's all fake. That's why I say IBUs are dead. IBUs are dead. So, Ben and Gigantic, you guys are coming up on 12 years. You've been at 12 years. Is there a party? There is a party, yeah. May the 4th be with you? Holy shit. People are so excited. You can hear them from Oregon cheering there. May 4th. May 4th, yeah. May the 4th. Perfect. Yeah, it's early. And it's from noon to 6 at our brewery location. That's the one off Hawthorne, yeah? 26th and Steel. 26th and Steel. Yeah, a little farther south down by Reed College, yeah. You have three locations now. We do have three locations. Tell us about those. So we have the original brewery, the Gigantic Brewery Tap Room and Champagne Lounge. I love it. How much champagne do you sell there? Technically, if you want to be a stickler, none. Because it's all Prosecco now. But like... Can you change it to the Prosecco Lounge? Steve Jones from Cheese Bar was like the one who we... We went to him and we were like, hey, will you help us get our champagnes? And like, he helped us out with that. And then we have the Hawthorne Location. Go back around. Hawthorne Location has got great food. Yeah, it's our first location with food. And then we have the Robot Room over on Gleason and 70th. Yeah, awesome. Fights break out. That's right. Tell us why that happens. Yeah, our beer has too many IBUs. It's the IBUs. So we have, we've been doing wrestling now. And every other month since last fall, and it's amazing. Yeah, we have so much fun. So it's Anarcho Pro Wrestling that puts together shows, and those guys are amazing. And they bring a full-size ring that we put up in the barrel room. And yeah, standing room only. And so there's, yeah, the wrestlers watch. Yeah, you guys go to our Instagram page and check out. I've seen the videos. I can't wait to go. They're really great. Yeah, they're amazing. Last time, one of the guys came off the top barrels with a trash can on his head. You know? Yeah, exactly. People flying around and fighting each other in the middle of a brewery. It's a beautiful thing. So today is the NFL draft is happening as we record this, actually. And I thought we'd have a draft of our own right here. The three of us. We would each put together our fearsome threesome of pro wrestlers from the 80s and 90s. You're limited to the 80s and 90s of pro wrestling. And I'm gonna take the first draft pick. We're gonna have three rounds. So we're gonna end up with three wrestlers each. And you get to draft. Mike, you gonna take my pick? Maybe. I'm gonna take the first pick of the draft. Okay, so be back with the first pick of the draft. Got some Jeopardy music you can play in the segment. It's good, yeah, no dead air in the podcast. With the first pick of the draft, I'm taking the macho man, Randy Savage. So you don't know anything about the macho man. And where I'm coming from, I take the macho man. I'm not going to attempt to do an impression. Was it macho man retired when Modern Times Portland closed? I don't think you can do that anymore. If you didn't get that reference. Macho man passed away before that, actually. Go ahead. I got macho man. Well, I mean, the obvious for me is Andre the Giant. All right. That's a good one. All the ladies in the room really like clapped for that. We got some Princess Bride fans in the house. No, I know that's why my wife lit up when he said Andre the Giant. When I think of him, I think of that, and I also think of the story. I think it was that he drank 100 beers in one night. Yes. It may have been more than that. It was incredible that a beer in that man's hand looked like nothing, nothing. He really was a giant. It was incredible. Ben, you're on the turn, so the way this works is it goes one, two, three, and then it comes back the other way. Yeah, so you get two picks right now. Oh, I get two, oh, shit. Yeah, you get pick number three of the first round, and then you get pick number one of the second round. Yeah, it's a snake draft. Well, as a Macho Man, Randy Savage lover, as I know you are, you know that the cream always rises to the top, brother. Brother, so I should have brought creamers with me. I wish I would have brought some creamers with me. Well, yeah. I should have known this was coming. But like. I didn't bring creamers, but. Actually, yeah, everybody out there, if you've never seen this. I didn't bring creamers, but I did bring you both a Slim Jim. I'm gonna do a Slim Jim. Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, brother. Yeah, if you've never watched, once you get done watching this, go over to YouTube and like check out, yeah, Macho Man Cream Rises the Top. Oh yeah. Amazing. That guy was incredible. He's the best. So I gotta give up for my hometown. And number one, fucking Rowdy Roddy Piper. Okay, there we go. Okay, Rowdy Roddy Piper, who's your next pick, first pick of the second round? All I gotta say is, whoa! I love it. I love the impressions we're breaking out here as well. It's your turn, Ezra. Come on, you can do it. Ric Flair. I mean, I'm not a wrestling geek like you guys. I don't know, when I was a kid, I mean, it was all about Hulk Hogan, you know? I gotta go. There was, I can't even remember the movie. There was some like really bad movie that he was in. I'm gonna have to look it up, but it was like action movie. What was that? It was Mr. Mom or something like that? He was... There was Suburban Commando. Yeah, I will say my pick was in an amazing movie, They Live. Oh yeah. Do you guys have that in the Vice catalog over in Commando? I don't think we do. I don't think we have that VHS yet. We do have a lot of wrestling VHSs though. We've literally had two different individuals drop off boxes of wrestling VHSs here. It's pretty great. Okay, so now I have two picks because I'm at the end of the second and then we turn around the other way. I'm gonna go with Mr. Perfect. I enjoyed Mr. Perfect's antics growing up, and then the other pick on the way back around, gosh, we're going 80s, 90s. I'm gonna take the Ultimate Warrior. Oh, shit. I'm gonna take the Ultimate Warrior. You're back up, Ezra. Well, I can't believe he's not been picked yet, but obviously Haksa. Haksa Jim Duggan. Haksa Jim Duggan, who we met. I was with Ezra when we met him in Denver during GABF. At one of my favorite beer events on the planet, the Beer Hall Brawl, which was incredible. It was a pro-am group of wrestlers from the Denver area there, of course, but Haksa Jim Duggan was there. He had his two-by-four. And the wrestling was crazy. If you've ever been to Beer Hall in Denver, it's two levels. The bar is up on the second level and you overlook the brewery. So they're wrestling down in the brewery and there's stairs that come up to the bar. And this whole wrestling thing's going on and the show, the match, spills out of the ring, up the stairs, into the bar, and they're literally grabbing chairs from people and throwing them at each other and hitting each other with them. There was this whole cabinet of board games in the bar that one guy just gets chucked into and the pieces in board games go everywhere. And at that moment, I realized, the staff is not in on this. Because the bartenders were so mad. Immediately, they were just like, they were just, terror entered their faces as they realized like all these game pieces and all this stuff went everywhere. Guess who has to clean this and find all the pieces? Yeah. I actually have a 2x4 from Hacksaw. Signed by Hacksaw? It is signed by Hacksaw. That's fantastic. Ben, you got the last pick. All right, I'm going to go with somebody who I loved both as a real human wrestler and as a cartoon, Sergeant Slaughter. Oh, yeah, that's a good one. That is a. Many a young boy had that GI. Joe as well. Yeah, so I ended up with Macho Man, Hulkster and Mr. Perfect. Sorry. No, you have the Hulk. I read this wrong. I ended up with Macho Man, Mr. Perfect and the Ultimate Warrior. Making that up like IBUs. You ended up with Andre the Giant, the Hulkster. Those are both two very big, large people and Gigantic even. And Hacksaw Jim Duggan. And Ben, you ended up with Rowdy Roddy Piper, Rick Flair and Sergeant Slaughter. We'll have a poll up on our social media at Overthinkr. And you guys can vote on which tag team of three came out on top here. And take a look at that. Speaking of wrestling and beer, Ezra, Portland Beer Week, when's it happening? June 16th through 23rd. Yeah, it's shaping up, got some news. I'd love to promote the New Oregon, actually it used to be New Oregon Brewery Showcase, but now it's going to be the New Brewery Showcase because we're bringing in more Washington breweries that I put together every year. We're going to have quite a few Washington breweries in it this year, including one I'm really excited about, Human People Beer coming out of Seattle. We're going to have over here from North Bank, Relevant, Recluse. Awesome. Yeah, it's going to be a really exciting lineup on Thursday, June 20th, Imperial Bottle Shop and Tap Room. But the whole beer week is shaping up really well. We've got the Brewers' Burger Brawl coming together. As Ben mentioned earlier, and bringing it back to the wrestling theme. That's the big question. That's the big question. Yeah, Snack Down, as Ben mentioned, is like a brewer-chef pairing foodie event with the wrestling theme. It's a beer and food tag team event. It is, yeah. I'm excited for that to come back. That's fantastic. We want to give a little bit of time here as we're getting down towards the end for some questions from some other folks that aren't here. Did you write these before? No, this is not from us at all. Are these real untapped reviews? Sitting out here. All right, we got a question here from Riz. Riz, come on up and ask this question. Come right over here. Stand between me and Ezra. I got a microphone for you. And yeah. So my question was for Ben. Does Gigantic have any future plans to release any more comic book based beers, specifically Dark Horse, like the Hellboy beers that were previously released? I liked those. Stay here because yeah. Yeah. So yeah, we don't have anything currently in the works with Dark Horse, but we are working with the Northwest Museum of Comic Arts, which is a nonprofit and a group that's hoping to start a comic arts museum in Portland. Yeah. So their goal right now, they have a Kickstarter campaign going right now, actually. So yeah, look up Northwest Museum of Comic Book Arts if you want to support. I'm sure you'll find their Kickstarter campaign. You can, you know, kick in some money, and they are looking to open up a comic arts museum at Lloyd Center to begin with, starting this fall. And run that for, they're hoping to run it for six months. But the long-term goal, of course, is to like have a permanent, permanent museum of comic book arts. And so we're actually, we're working, part of what we're doing and working with them is that if you put a certain amount of money into the Kickstarter, then you will get your face on a can of gigantic beer that is drawn by local, very well-known comic book artists. You must be a comic book fan. Oh, yes. What comic books do you nerd out on? So obviously Hellboy. And I've not just read Hellboy, but also all the Ape Sapien comics and BPRD as well. Big Dark Horse fan. I also am really into Saga. Yeah, a lot of like the image comic books. Yes, very into Tank Girl. Yeah, so a lot of Dark Horse, a lot of image comic books. Awesome. Killer. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. Thanks for submitting the question and playing along. We'll do one more. That's fun. Yeah. Let's see what we got in here. Got a question from Mike Perkins. Where's Mike Perkins? Mike Perkins, come on up here. Microphone right here. Mike's got a question. This question is for Ezra. I wrote this before we obviously touched on brown nails for a very long time. Not enough. Not enough. Keep going. Ben can answer it too, because obviously Michael won't answer it. What is your favorite brown nail you've had recently? I mean, too many to count, Mike. Let me tell you how much time you have. I don't know. I mean, I had a really nice one at Ruben's Brews recently, a brewery that is strikingly relevant to the Washington beer scene. And they make a brown nail. Yes, they make a brown nail. Incredible. Yeah, and probably the aforementioned Falling Sky brown nail. Yeah, I mean, I've been enjoying some of the... Actually, I actually judged the category of brown nails at the Oregon Beer Awards. No way. Yes, which I don't know if that was a coincidence. Ben Edmonds, the organizer, is trolling you. Brown nail was the official champion beer style at the Oregon Beer Awards. But it wasn't like the brown nail category. It was like a classic North American style category, but there was like half the beers in the category were like brown nails. And I judged it with Kevin Davey. So there was like six beers in the category? There was hundreds, thousands, yeah. And on to me. Yeah, have you had a brown nail? Tell me if it's better than I am or not. No. You are better, you are much better. Thank you. Aww. It's a really good brown ale. It's a very good brown ale. That was the last can, wasn't it? God damn it. There's actually one more. There's one more for Ezra to take home. It was funny, that question though, I honestly, besides that, I don't remember the last time I had a brown ale. And that's the correct answer, and that's the answer we were looking for. No, it's funny, I've had a number of brown ales lately because of Ezra's trolling. My birthday and Ezra's are very close together, even the same year. We're born 10 days apart. So during my birthday, I happened to be in Astoria for Bridge and Tunnels anniversary, and I was, I had multiple people come up to me and what is it, you've seen getting iced. You've heard of that term and what that means, you get iced and somebody gives you a smirnoff ice and you gotta chug it and whatever, right? Yeah, that's a different, yeah. So a number of folks in Astoria said, we're starting a new thing, it's called getting crapped on and we just give you a brown ale. And so I've had a lot of brown ales in my life recently, actually. Mike, what have you had for brown ale recently? You gonna sign up for that game? I call it getting the brown eye. There's a website for that, it's called fetlife.com. I actually did have the Falling Sky one yesterday. 2023 GABF winner. Okay. Probably win again. Yes, and it won both the 2024 and 2023 Gold Origin Beer Awards. Maybe you could learn something from Falling Sky. Now, if they would just bring back to Pastrami. That's true. We would actually go there. There you go. All right. Thank you, Mike. Thanks for hanging out with us. Thanks for being here. And yeah. I want to give a shout out to the Zeppelin crew who puts this whole thing together. This is produced by Zeppelin. That includes the Buck Dagger, Sean Burke, who is behind the board. And the Zack of All Trade, Zach Denton, who is also back there doing the cameras and the mics and everything. Thank you, Ezra and Ben, for being here, being our guests. This was a lot of fun. And our next live taping will be May 9th. And the show will come out shortly after that. You can look for this show on YouTube, hopefully as soon as tomorrow. And you can look for it on all of the streaming services, all the places you get your podcasts shortly thereafter. Turns out, as this being our inaugural show, there's likely to be a delay as we go through the approval processes of these different platforms. So, thanks for hanging in there, thanks for listening. Hope you had a good time, we had a good time, and that's it. That was Overthinkr.